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www.undertowsoftware.com • View topic - Slow recalculating

Slow recalculating

A discussion area for users of RTN2012, TLDCN2011, TLDCN2010, TLDC2009, TLDCN2008, TLDCN2007 & TLDCN2006

Slow recalculating

Postby wrgallant » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:14 pm

I'm creating my 1st trip cross country using TLDCN 2011 and find the trip recalculating very slow. If I change one point on the trip, I have to go through a 5 minute recalculation to see the new map. I've used other trip planners and they recalculate a similar trip in 10 seconds. I have the automatic recalculation off, is there some other setting that I have wrong?

Thanks

Bill
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby xavier » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:56 pm

I don't have any trips that take anywhere near 5 minutes to recalculate. But, I found the turning the option to calculate and display elevations off, sped up the trip calculations. It also may depend on other trip settings (I don't know) and also on the memory available on your system and the CPU. What are you system specs?
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:59 pm

Same here, Xavier. I have a 2.3 GHz dual Core system with 4 Gb memory running Windows 7 (recently installed) and the longest a trip takes to calculate is 15-20 seconds. Now, my trips may not be as long, but I'll report any slow-down as I create more, longer trips.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby wrgallant » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:41 pm

It's a Dell Laptop with a 1.73 GHz processors & 2GB ram running windows XP. I have the complete calculation & elevation off and it does not make any difference.

Thanks

Bill
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:10 pm

Yeah, it sounds as it it's a system issue. I know that 2 Gb RAM and 1,7 GHz sounds very powerful, but nowadays, with all sorts of drivers, applications, etc. running in the background, it's not all that much :-( Of course, I'm just guessing, because I don't know what is running on your system and what is not.

If you want to post your trip file, I can run it on my system and see if it makes a difference.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby wrgallant » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:39 pm

The extension trp is not allowed for upload. I don't think it's a system issue because I can run the same trip with MS Streets & Trips & recalculate in 10 seconds.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:54 pm

Just ZIP it, before you upload it. I've seen others post ZIP files. I don't think MS Streets ant Trips does the same type calculations, so you can't compare them. But, like I said, I don't know, I'm just guessing, that's why I was willing to try and see if it made a difference. It's up to you.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:11 pm

BTW, just for your reference, with elevation calculation off and complete recalculation on, here are some of my calculation times.

{Two Point Trip}
From Norfolk, VA -to- Omaha, NE (~ 1,300 mi) = 6 sec to calculate and display directions

{Three Point Trip}
From Norfolk, VA -to- Omaha, NE -to- Grants Pass, Or (~ 3,000 mi) = 10 sec to calculate and display directions

If I start adding campgrounds, layovers, more points, etc. The calculation time can increase significantly.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby wrgallant » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:40 pm

My trip file - is attached. I'm going to try running it on my desktop computer.
I travel with the laptop so the program is not of much use on my desktop.
summer 2011.zip
(1.28 KiB) Downloaded 879 times
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:22 am

I loaded your trip and got directions multiple times. 35 - 37 seconds average.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby Dave.W » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:21 am

I also downloaded and did the trip. On my Laptop, Dell, 1.66 GHz CPU, 1 gb RAM, WIndows XP (SP3), it took about 1 min 20 sec to calculate. If I get a chance, I will run it on my other system, as well, and report the results.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby wrgallant » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:35 am

System requirements say minimum 2GHz processor - guess it's not a good choice for my laptop.

thanks
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby Dave.W » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:04 pm

I just tried it on my other laptop. Thinkpad, 2.2 GHz, 1 Gb, Vista Ultimate. It took about a minute 30 seconds to calculate. This is a faster CPU, but I think the difference hear may be the RAM. I also have MS-Streets and Trips on this one and I entered the same points you had and it took about 22 seconds to calculate the trip. Hmm... There is a big difference here!!
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:31 pm

I don't think you can compare this program and Streets and Trips (well, you can, but I don't think you should). I believe this program goes through a lot more calculations, stop points, via points, travel times, etc. It's not the same as Streets and Trips that just does a two-point calculation. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if TL calculated in a couple of seconds, I'm just saying you need to compare apples-to-apples :-)
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby Dave.W » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:51 pm

@ericton: I know what you are saying, but I tried a couple of different things and I see the same order of magnitude differences in trip itinerary calculations between the two programs. I tried just a single "point A - to point B" and then one where I had the "all the same" points the OP had in his trip, in both programs. So I am comparing apples to apples. Because I was lazy, I didn't add the stay overnights in the S&T trip and that would be the only difference, which should not account for such a big difference in calculation time. Anyway, I've got to get back to work, I just wanted to let you know that I was comparing the same trip and it is much slower.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby mrhagen » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:35 pm

This has been a lively place :-) Well, for my part, I set up a quick test running Trailer Life and Streets and Trips, from: "203 JAPONICA ST, PAWTUCKET, RI 02860", To: " 2199 E 13TH ST, LUBBOCK, TX 79403". Here are the results on an 2.1 GHz Dell with 2 Mb, running Win 7. The first trial was with just two points, then 3 points (I added a point about midway, in Indianapolis), and finally I added more points along the way for a 10 point trip.

2-Pts, TL = 15 sec, S&T = 3 sec
3-Pts, TL = 16 sec, S&T = 4 sec
10-Pts, TL = 45 sec, S&T = 6 sec

I think it's clear that S&T is definitely much faster.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:49 pm

Guys, guys,... you are not comparing apples to apples. They are two different program and they do different things. For example, S&T may use all the same via points and such, but it doesn't have to stop at the end of each travel day, and try to figure out what campgrounds are near there so it can display them for the user. That's just one of the differences, they are different programs!!!!
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby geniwright » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:33 pm

There seems to be too much attempted justification of the slow processing for the navigator 2011 (and all previous versions). It would be interesting to hear from the producers as to why the slow processing is justified or necessary.

I routinely plan travel in my motorhome and have used the Campground navigator for several years. It is particularly useful for evaluating campgrounds near a destination and really mediocre as a trip planning tool. As a result I use Streets and trips for the trip planning and Navigator to choose a campground - cumbersome, wish they could get together.

My computer runs the intel i5 chip at 2.53 Ghz, 6 Gb RAM, so computer speed is not the limiting factor.

Recent trip of about 4800 miles, 13 destinations and 7 undefined stop points requires 55 sec to calculate a route on Navigator, 5 sec on S & T. That wouldn't be quite so bad but any change in the destination list, no matter how minor, requires another 55 sec on Navigator. S & T only 2-4 sec, depending where in the route the change is made.

Both programs provide essentially the same information - routing map, detailed (too detailed) driving instructions, POI along the way. Both will identify campgrounds at defined points without additional calculation time, but only Navigator provides data for evaluation and selection. Navigator provides daily driving miles which S & T doesn't,

S & T organizes the display data panes so that both the instructions and waypoints are visible, without covering the map. Panes are adjustable for size and can be closed and recalled at will. Navigator provides large, non adjustable data panes that overlay and obscure much of the map, no matter where they are moved, even on y 17" laptop display.

Bottom line: they both are useful programs, neither one complete. Both do a similar routing job, providing comparable information so a speed comparison is completely valid. I keep buying a new version, hoping they have improved the old deficiencies. Apparently I can only keep hoping.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby ericton » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:56 am

If the justification comment was directed towards me, first let me just say that I would "love" to see the Navigator be 10 times faster, and if discussions such as these continue, maybe the company will take notice and indeed do something about it :-)

All I was trying to point out is that they are different products and the Navigator does have to do additional work when it does the end of the day calculation and has to go look up all the campgrounds near that location to present the information to the user, etc. I believe (I can't know for sure), that's why when Mrhagen posted his comparison results, when only two points were involved, with no in-between points that require these additional calculations by the Navigator, the results were not a skewed, even though the same travel distances were involved. I don;t know, may be the Navigator should have a button that said "S&T" mode that just did a point-to-point calculation, avoiding any/all of the additional calculations it may need, for elevations, campgrounds, etc. In my opinion, it would not produce a very useful trip itinerary (for me), but it would satisfy anyone whose primary goal is comparisons with S&T, since it would be a more "apples-to-apples"comparison.

Again, having said all that, I hope that the company "MAKES THE PROGRAM FASTER" :-)

I don't really have a problem with the directions dialog, because I can anchor it to the side (where it becomes much narrower and takes very little real estate and doesn't obscure the map. The tip planner dialog can be mover around, so I can look underneath at the map detail (I love maps <g>). If they could also let me anchor the trip planner dialog out of the way, for me that would be the perfect interface (are you listening undertow?)

The thing that I would REALLY like to see in the program, and here is where I agree with you 110%, is that when I change a point in my trip, the trip recalculation is NOT done from the beginning again, taking all the time. I think only the affected section should be recalculated.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby russwjohnson » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:41 pm

After reading all of the posts regarding slow calc's, I set up identical trips using the 2010 and 2011 versions, on my laptop and desktop. It is a simple trip; starting location, a destination and a return to the starting location.
The total trip is ~ 360 miles.
The laptop is a Dell w/Vista, 1.66 ghrtz with 3 gig ram.
The desktop is a Dell w/XP, 3 ghrtz, with 2 gig ram.
Ver 2010 consistantly 12 seconds or less. A recalc was 5 seconds or less.
Ver 2011 consistantly 50 to 60 seconds. A reclac was consistantly 50 to 60 seconds.

To me, it appears obvious, that there is something different in the way things are calculated and the 2011 ver is 'slower' by a factor of 4 or 5 times.

It does cause one to wonder why ?

Although the difference in calc times is not outragious, it is an anoyance.

Russ
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby artmart » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:56 pm

Now this is the best comparison to denote that there is a downgrade in performance in a newer version. Obviously the algorithm for trip calculations have changed for the worst. It's especially disappointing that a degradation is part of the change and this should be brought to Undertow's attention.

I'm hoping that they can improve this somehow or one of the main features for this program - frequent trip planning - will cause user problems for us.

You might take your findings just like you've posted to Undertow so they can start with this comparison. I only have TLDCN 2008 and TLDCN 2011 and the differences between these two are too vast to use as a metric but 2011 and 2010? Can't get much closer than that.

I appreciate your effort Russ and I hope you pursue this further.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby russwjohnson » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:00 pm

Hi all,

As advised, forwarded my post to Undertow earlier today and recv'd a reply indicating that they would look into it and reply promptly.

Will let you all know when I hear back from them.

Russ
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby russwjohnson » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:55 pm

Update ......

As of now, have not heard from Undertow support
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby artmart » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:56 am

Then this means it's a toughy and not an easy fix. You might want to "ping" them just so it doesn't fall through the cracks.
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Re: Slow recalculating

Postby Kevin_T » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:12 pm

Just in case readers of this thread missed a new post by a user experiencing much faster calculations. Here is the link:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=246
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